Manchado comparisons

I have had a few people ask me what made the Pato horse so different from any other sabino roan. Several people suggested that the horse looked no different from horses like the one pictured to the left of this group. (That photo came from Notorious Stock, and can be seen in its entirety here.) I’ve set the horse from the previous post alongside him with a photo of a leopard appaloosa rump beside it. It is the organization of the spots on the pato horse into clusters, which are reminiscent of a leopard, that made me wonder if he was displaying a manchado pattern along with sabino. The horse caught my eye because he doesn’t look exactly like either a sabino roan or a leopard, but visually falls somewhat in between.

I also had someone say they had not seen a manchado that looked “anything like” a leopard complex horse. Here is another comparison shot.

It is the quantity of round spots set inside the white ground, often concentrated on the hindquarters, that gives the manchado pattern a leopard-like appearance. (Left is a manchado, right is an appaloosa. Photo used with permission.)

That’s not to say that sabinos cannot have round spots set within a white ground.

But it is unusual to see that concentrated on the top of the rump, and spread continuously over the whole horse. We don’t know that it is impossible, but the oddity of it made me suspect something else might be there.

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6 Responses to Manchado comparisons

  1. Jacqueline Ferrigno June 28, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    For what ever reason it’s not allowing me to post on the Equine Color Forum. So I’ll post it here since I was the one to show you that paint horse in the first place.

    I didn’t see anything from allbreed? I was referring to the horses posted in the Equine Color thread. I don’t feel they could be manchado. And if I were to compare it to other patterns like you did in the blog post, I’d compare it to the entire body and not just selectively. Selective comparison is just another way of manipulating results in favor of a conclusion. If we look at the thoroughbred and Arabian that come up on the net all the time (I thought there was another one as well) and then the paintings of Spanish horses (who we really don’t know if they are manchado or a mixture of white patterns) neither of them I feel could be mistaken for an appaloosa because their spots just don’t behave that way on their coat when you look at them as a whole. Unless we’re taking the odd patch seen in appies every now and then LOL

  2. cece osborn June 28, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    I lived in southern NM for several years and had paint horses. Alot of paints have this pattern from the C Note line, if you look up C Note Valentine, and C Note Sawbuck and Nylon you will see the same kind of patterns. Alot of the C Notes are sabino, and i had a C Note Sawbuck daughter who was 95% solid white, just a little freckling on her ears and chest. She had 2 sons just about colored the same. Its not an appy pattern for sure, it almost looks like white paint was thrown on the dark, like splattes

  3. The Equine Tapestry June 28, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    Jacqueline, the horse on allbreed (Vasco Piskui, a polo pony) was linked in original post.

    And no one is trying to “manipulate the results”. I don’t know that the horse posted is a manchado, and I have stated that clearly. I believe he is some kind of sabino, as I have also stated. What I have speculated – and that is all it has been – is that he might also be carrying manchado. He is in the right place (Argentina) and a type (polo pony) where the color has been found before.

    When asked why I thought he was any different from patterns that others saw as “just the same”, I posted the part of the pattern that made me suspect the presence of something else. The horses were either posted multiple shots previously, well-known already (the manchado hindquarter on the second group is Trabag, easily the best-known horse with that pattern), linked with full body shots elsewhere, or fairly obvious as to how the remainder of their body might look (the appaloosas). Posting pieces was the easiest way to communicate to people not here in person, where I could point and say, “this, this here is what I mean” and grab another shot and say, “see, like this.”

    Suggesting that I was trying to stack the deck implies that I want people to think that the horse is a manchado. I am asking questions, and I have no definitive answers. Manchado is a pattern that we only barely understand on its own; there have been to my knowledge less than a dozen or so documented in the research community. We don’t know enough to do more than guess its peculiarities. Analyzing the horse I posted would require not only to know manchado, but to know what sabino does *in concert* with it. We cannot even be sure we know how the different common patterning genes interact with one another.

    The post was made to throw one more potential piece of information out there on something where our picture is very incomplete. It may mean something, and it may mean nothing. It was meant to further discussion, but insinuations that the information is not being offered in good faith are not productive.

  4. The Equine Tapestry June 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    For those that want to see C-Note, the Paint Cece mentioned, his picture is here on allbreed.
    There was a Paint mare family that had a really odd style of patterning, and now her name escapes me entirely. I can remember seeing her and some of her relatives and thinking that even for Paints they were strange. Now I’m going to have to go find her… :)

  5. Jacqueline Ferrigno June 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    There we go! Vasco Piskui was the other horse I was trying to remember. I knew there was a third photo of a real horse on the net some where. Thanks.

  6. Joanie in Carlsbad June 29, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    Lesli, thank you for the informative blog, I understood perfectly what you were trying to convey in the post. Sabino is going to be a very complex and subtle tangle to tease away from the rest of the patterns and isolate, particularly on a rare pattern where so little is known.

    There was another manchado, he was stockier and had white on his neck and forehand mostly, do you know which one I am talking about? One of the first ‘strange’ horses that brought the pattern to everyone’s attention?